Budget 2024: Jack Tame and Finance Minister Nicola Willis in heated Q+A post-Budget debate on tax cuts

Finance Minister Nicola Willis has received a grilling from Q+A host Jack Tame, just days after delivering a Budget heavily focused on tax cuts.

Tame came out swinging not far into the early morning interview, immediately scrutinising how much better off families would be from tax cuts.

After half a dozen clips played of National leader Christopher Luxon stating families with children would get $250 a week, Tame asked how many would receive that much.

“During the campaign, Christopher Luxon repeatedly sold your tax cuts by talking about the families who would be better off by $250 a fortnight,” Tame said.

“I did a quick Google and found at least nine times when he’s talked about that – including after the Budget.

“To be clear, how many will get that?”

Just under 3000 got the $250 a fortnight tax cut National campiagned on.

Then Tame asked how many people were worse off. After some debate, they landed on the number of 9000.

“There are three times as many households in New Zealand who will be worse off because of your tax changes than will get the maximum tax cuts you campaigned on,” he said.

“Is that correct, is that correct? So why didn’t Christopher Luxon campaign on that?”

Willis said Tame’s view was “selective picking of the data” and that 5000 of those people were only slightly worse off.

“I’m looking at the number you have campaigned on – you’ve gone on and on and on about it,” Tame said.

“There are plenty of examples there, I can play the clip again if you need it?”

Willis was also under fire over child poverty and the additional costs households face.

“A person without young kids gets an average of $17 a week but you are reintroducing prescription charges, increasing waste disposal levies, reintroducing first-year tuition fees, increasing overall tuition fees by 6 per cent, hiking interest on late payments on student loans, removing public transport subsidies for children and young people, increasing vehicle registration fees and introducing road user charges,” Tame said.

“What assurances can you give that person, who feels their $17 a week is being eaten up, that your Government won’t introduce other forms of new taxes?”

Willis fired back, stating that tax reduction was permanent and the real culprit was inflation.

“It is coming under control and that is really meaningful.”

Willis was also in the firing line on why cancer drugs promised in the campaign had not been immediately introduced.

She conceded the party could have done a better job at communicating the wait to people who rely on the drugs to live.

“I’ll accept that,” she said.

But Willis didn’t accept Tame’s argument that National paid for tax cuts by borrowing an additional $12 billion on top of already forecast borrowing.

“What hypothetical world do you live in?” Willis asked Tame. “All of the decisions have helped us find tax relief.”

Tame hit back and asked what hypothetical world Willis lived in, where you would still borrow $12b if you hadn’t delivered tax cuts.

“If you chose to bank the cuts as opposed to giving tax cuts, you would be borrowing less, right?” Tame asked.

Willis hit back herself, saying she was “determined to live in the real world, not this hypothetical world.”

“I looked a lot of people in the eye and said ‘tax relief is coming’.”

Tame hit back: “So it was a choice. In order to follow through with your promises on the campaign, you chose to borrow $12b on top of the borrowing already forecast.”

“Do you accept [that]?”

This time Willis did not concede.

“I don’t accept that and I’m not letting it go.”